I write this with deep sorrow. I've been an admirer of the writing of Greil Marcus for decades, going back to the Village Voice in the early 1980s. His piece in the Voice Literary Supplement on Ken Knabb's "The Situationist International Anthology"—"The Long walk of the Situationist International"—was one of the most fascinating works of writing and cultural excavation I have ever encountered. I've read several of his books.
In the mid-1990s, I saw Marcus speak as part of a panel discussion at the opening of an exhibit on the Beat Generation at the Whitney Museum of American Art. I had recently completed a thesis on the Beats and their relationship to American culture for a master's degree any Wesleyan University and was then writing for a (now defunct) New Haven alt-weekly. A week or so later, Greil kindly gave of his time for a phone interview for an article I wrote on the Beats and the exhibit.
I find Marcus's reaction to—and description of—the student protests profoundly disturbing, intellectually dishonest, and lacking in the empathy he (rightfully) demands of others. I don't disagree with his condemnation of the Hamas attack. The 10/7 attack was pre-meditated barbarism, a massive crime against humanity; so, too, is the taking and holding of the hostages a crime against humanity. They should not be held a minute longer. Hamas presides over a corrupt, theocratic dictatorship.
Did Hamas intend to provoke a vicious Israeli reaction in order to serve its organizational ends both at home in Gaza and internationally? There is no doubt. Is Marcus correct in stating that Hamas acted with brazen disregard for the toll that would be inflicted on the Gaza population? Clearly he is.
Have there been disgusting displays of antisemitism associated with the protests? Yes. Have some protesters praised the Hamas attacks? Also, yes.
For Marcus, that's the whole story, full stop. The protests are nothing more than Jew hatred. (The Jews participating in the protests aren't mentioned by Marcus; we can assume he sees them as not motivated by empathy but rather merely self-loathing.)
What goes unmentioned by Marcus is that the Israeli government has agency. The United States government also has agency. Neither government was forced to engage or be complicit in the barbarous assault on Gaza that has actually occurred.
When I say Marcus displays a complete lack of empathy, I mean this—nowhere does he evince even the slightest whit of human feeling over a military attack on a trapped population that has killed over 35,000 people (mostly civilians); destroyed more than 390 educational institutions including every university (NPR); "led to the deadliest period for journalists since CPJ began gathering data in 1992" (CPJ); damaged or destroyed almost half of Gaza's buildings, including almost 70% of its housing (Times of Israel); eviscerated Gaza's health care system, including not only hospitals but also other health facilities, ambulances, doctors, nurses & patients, and coupled that with the blockade on lifesaving medical supplies (Al-Jazeera); and engineered a famine that's leading to the starvation of children.
Marcus fairly raises the ugly sides of the protests, the most extreme positions taken among those who oppose Israel. But he doesn't address the ugliness of those supportive of Israel's response—because he either doesn't care or actively shares it. The violent attacks on protesters, the violent language wishing rape and death on them, the craven action by numerous universities—trying to appease bad faith right wing politicians—in sticking cops on their own students. He has space for but ten words on the character of the Netanyahu government: "most lawless, immoral, corrupt, and incompetent government in its history." Nothing on the terrorists in that government and the genocidal language THEY have used. Nothing on their unwillingness to work towards the two-state solution that has been the purported basis of US policy for decades and to which Israeli leaders have paid lip service. Nothing on the fact—the very well-documented fact—that Netanyahu himself has encouraged the sending of billions to Hamas as part of a cynical strategy to prop up the extremist group in order to undermine the possibility of a two-state solution.
Unlike Greil Marcus, millions of us are capable of being horrified by massacres being committed by Israel with the complicity of our government without valorizing Hamas nor wishing violence nor death on the Jewish population of Israel. Marcus' description of the motivations of most protesters is a despicable lie and smear, the only purpose of which is to run interference for a "lawless, immoral, corrupt, and incompetent government" as it commits horrific crimes against humanity.
"Every death of a person in Gaza is a win for Hamas. It is precisely what Hamas wants," writes Marcus, not inaccurately. But apparently it's also what Greil Marcus wants, or, at least, he's more upset about people who cry out in anger and anguish over it than he is about the deaths of the civilians themselves.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. Thought lot about all the places where I could have pulled back, said ‘but, or ‘even given’ or anything similar. I didn’t think it needed to be said. I wrote to make a certain argument I thought was not being made or not being made in the way I wanted to make it. I wasn’t trying to make every argument. I didn’t write to protect myself or condemning the fiends in the current Israeli government. But your response is just the kind of conversation this column is meant for.
Very strong. I think your analysis of the Israel-Hamas situation, and the reactions to it around the world ,is rationally and insightfully rendered. The painful anecdote from your childhood shows how banal and mindless and incomprehensible--and ubiquitous-- antisemitism and racism always are.
Since the subject of DJs came up, I was wondering if you ever listened to Al "Jazzbeaux" Collins when he had a show in the Bay Area. I used to listen to him on KFI in Los Angeles and it was a formative experience.
There is certainly a valid human rights case to be made that if the continued existence of Israel requires a periodic bloodbath on this scale than the price of its existence is too. If you had the ability to impose such an outcome what you'd be saying is "It may be possible to have a Jewish state in the Middle East, but not you." But even if every Jew were to evacuate leaving not so much as a bean in the cupboard behind (and I doubt an Israeli Arab would care to stick around to see how the new Palestinian state treats collaborators either), then what you would have would not have peace and freedom for all but another war. I think it's inevitable that Israel will survive come out of this as a pariah state like South Africa was, for those who think that would be desirable.
"And yesterday I went to see the Twins beat the Red Sox and after talking about Robert Johnson . . ."
Will admit my aging mind initially read this as "talking with Robert Johnson," which made perfect sense while raising the question "what were they talking about?" Records? Musicians? Baseball? Existence? Then I realized "with" was "about," and felt disappointed.
I read Sterling Hayden's novel Voyage decades ago, remember a powerfully excruciating extended passage about a man struggling to quit alcohol, an experience I've never had but believe Hayden was familiar with.
Like Greil, even at 75 years of age, I only recall having experienced one very small act of antisemitism. As a Jew it's truly a luxury, as I've been at liberty to live life without fear or harassment. The incident occurred in 1966 when I was away at a high school summer Spanish immersion program in the northern Mexican state of Coahuila. In the students in attendance I experienced a fascinating mix of people from all over the U.S., north, south, east and west. The most Beatle-y looking guy was from Texarkana, Arkansas (who, playing against physical type, all too often would refer to "the nigras" in and about his home state), and the prettiest girl was blonde, friendly and approachable, a debutante in waiting from the Chicago suburbs. As for myself, I used styling gel and blow dried my hair, a product of Jay Sebring's Sunset Strip influence in Los Angeles. One afternoon the lovely girl from near Chicago and I were taking a short bus ride when, looking out the window, she happened to remark, "Yesterday, the bus took me through the crumbiest looking part of town, and you wouldn't believe what I saw: a Jewish synagogue. It was disgusting." "I'm Jewish," I replied, most matter of factly. The next day she avoided my presence, and I saw her hanging out with the guy with the Beatles haircut.
I'm oblivious but before Charlotte I really thought anti-semitism was over, past, or at the very least somewhere else, Israel, not the US. I am on your side but I think you're being too hard on the campus protesters.
"I realize they loved disco and made their own version. But to me it was more like a philosophy lecture as tableau vivant."
My fantasy is being drunk at a house party trying to get Greil, also drunk, to dance. Everyone, the place is packed, is dancing, going crazy, before Marcus finally forgets himself and dances to the music. The place is jumping, so to speak. It's like the 49ers won the Super Bowl.
"The Tom Russell song is everything I hate about singer-songwriters. Sententious and sentimental and phony and self-flattering"
I've sometimes wondered where I got this take from.
I'd hazard a guess that Marcus never liked much any of the Jackson's music? The body-hating and pedophilia were hard to take but I already liked the music a lot before that stuff came out, which made it extra weird. Like learning as a kid Ty Cobb was a violent racist asshole.
Won't you please explain how Hamas was able to trespass the most secured frontier in the world without being noticed and in doing so providing Israel with a lame excuse for genocide. Talking about suppositions and perceptions. And yes, I am Jewish.
They were noticed because the Gaza border was being watched, but it wasn't secured--there were insufficient troops and firepower to stop the attack and apparently no battle plans to respond to a large-scale Hamas offensive. The initial IDF response on October 7 was ad hoc and uncoordinated; it was also, in places, heartbreakingly heroic. It was the greatest failure in the history of the IDF, worse than the opening days of the Yom Kippur War.
I would call what has followed not genocide but pitiless war. Hamas chose to reset the calendar to 1941, the year of Babi Yar. It should surprise no one that Israel has reset the calendar to 1944, waging war with the ruthlessness the Western Allies showed when fighting Germany and Japan.
Greil. You’ve a few more “things” to say? Appears herein your audience knows you well enough to throw darts at you. . University Students, Hamas, Israel and Anti Semitism . You left no one out of “blame” albeit I see Netanyahu was not mentioned. I appreciate your essay and agree with most. Anti Semites masks are falling down, falling down. Btw I’ve not heard of you before this read.
I write this with deep sorrow. I've been an admirer of the writing of Greil Marcus for decades, going back to the Village Voice in the early 1980s. His piece in the Voice Literary Supplement on Ken Knabb's "The Situationist International Anthology"—"The Long walk of the Situationist International"—was one of the most fascinating works of writing and cultural excavation I have ever encountered. I've read several of his books.
In the mid-1990s, I saw Marcus speak as part of a panel discussion at the opening of an exhibit on the Beat Generation at the Whitney Museum of American Art. I had recently completed a thesis on the Beats and their relationship to American culture for a master's degree any Wesleyan University and was then writing for a (now defunct) New Haven alt-weekly. A week or so later, Greil kindly gave of his time for a phone interview for an article I wrote on the Beats and the exhibit.
I find Marcus's reaction to—and description of—the student protests profoundly disturbing, intellectually dishonest, and lacking in the empathy he (rightfully) demands of others. I don't disagree with his condemnation of the Hamas attack. The 10/7 attack was pre-meditated barbarism, a massive crime against humanity; so, too, is the taking and holding of the hostages a crime against humanity. They should not be held a minute longer. Hamas presides over a corrupt, theocratic dictatorship.
Did Hamas intend to provoke a vicious Israeli reaction in order to serve its organizational ends both at home in Gaza and internationally? There is no doubt. Is Marcus correct in stating that Hamas acted with brazen disregard for the toll that would be inflicted on the Gaza population? Clearly he is.
Have there been disgusting displays of antisemitism associated with the protests? Yes. Have some protesters praised the Hamas attacks? Also, yes.
For Marcus, that's the whole story, full stop. The protests are nothing more than Jew hatred. (The Jews participating in the protests aren't mentioned by Marcus; we can assume he sees them as not motivated by empathy but rather merely self-loathing.)
What goes unmentioned by Marcus is that the Israeli government has agency. The United States government also has agency. Neither government was forced to engage or be complicit in the barbarous assault on Gaza that has actually occurred.
When I say Marcus displays a complete lack of empathy, I mean this—nowhere does he evince even the slightest whit of human feeling over a military attack on a trapped population that has killed over 35,000 people (mostly civilians); destroyed more than 390 educational institutions including every university (NPR); "led to the deadliest period for journalists since CPJ began gathering data in 1992" (CPJ); damaged or destroyed almost half of Gaza's buildings, including almost 70% of its housing (Times of Israel); eviscerated Gaza's health care system, including not only hospitals but also other health facilities, ambulances, doctors, nurses & patients, and coupled that with the blockade on lifesaving medical supplies (Al-Jazeera); and engineered a famine that's leading to the starvation of children.
Marcus fairly raises the ugly sides of the protests, the most extreme positions taken among those who oppose Israel. But he doesn't address the ugliness of those supportive of Israel's response—because he either doesn't care or actively shares it. The violent attacks on protesters, the violent language wishing rape and death on them, the craven action by numerous universities—trying to appease bad faith right wing politicians—in sticking cops on their own students. He has space for but ten words on the character of the Netanyahu government: "most lawless, immoral, corrupt, and incompetent government in its history." Nothing on the terrorists in that government and the genocidal language THEY have used. Nothing on their unwillingness to work towards the two-state solution that has been the purported basis of US policy for decades and to which Israeli leaders have paid lip service. Nothing on the fact—the very well-documented fact—that Netanyahu himself has encouraged the sending of billions to Hamas as part of a cynical strategy to prop up the extremist group in order to undermine the possibility of a two-state solution.
Unlike Greil Marcus, millions of us are capable of being horrified by massacres being committed by Israel with the complicity of our government without valorizing Hamas nor wishing violence nor death on the Jewish population of Israel. Marcus' description of the motivations of most protesters is a despicable lie and smear, the only purpose of which is to run interference for a "lawless, immoral, corrupt, and incompetent government" as it commits horrific crimes against humanity.
"Every death of a person in Gaza is a win for Hamas. It is precisely what Hamas wants," writes Marcus, not inaccurately. But apparently it's also what Greil Marcus wants, or, at least, he's more upset about people who cry out in anger and anguish over it than he is about the deaths of the civilians themselves.
I don’t disagree with anything you say. Thought lot about all the places where I could have pulled back, said ‘but, or ‘even given’ or anything similar. I didn’t think it needed to be said. I wrote to make a certain argument I thought was not being made or not being made in the way I wanted to make it. I wasn’t trying to make every argument. I didn’t write to protect myself or condemning the fiends in the current Israeli government. But your response is just the kind of conversation this column is meant for.
As Lester Bangs once wrote about something else (but not really) "Sometimes I think nothing is simple but the feeling of pain."
Very strong. I think your analysis of the Israel-Hamas situation, and the reactions to it around the world ,is rationally and insightfully rendered. The painful anecdote from your childhood shows how banal and mindless and incomprehensible--and ubiquitous-- antisemitism and racism always are.
This is so powerful, Greil... thank you for writing.
Thank you for your sane comments on Israel and Hamas.
Since the subject of DJs came up, I was wondering if you ever listened to Al "Jazzbeaux" Collins when he had a show in the Bay Area. I used to listen to him on KFI in Los Angeles and it was a formative experience.
There is certainly a valid human rights case to be made that if the continued existence of Israel requires a periodic bloodbath on this scale than the price of its existence is too. If you had the ability to impose such an outcome what you'd be saying is "It may be possible to have a Jewish state in the Middle East, but not you." But even if every Jew were to evacuate leaving not so much as a bean in the cupboard behind (and I doubt an Israeli Arab would care to stick around to see how the new Palestinian state treats collaborators either), then what you would have would not have peace and freedom for all but another war. I think it's inevitable that Israel will survive come out of this as a pariah state like South Africa was, for those who think that would be desirable.
"And yesterday I went to see the Twins beat the Red Sox and after talking about Robert Johnson . . ."
Will admit my aging mind initially read this as "talking with Robert Johnson," which made perfect sense while raising the question "what were they talking about?" Records? Musicians? Baseball? Existence? Then I realized "with" was "about," and felt disappointed.
I read Sterling Hayden's novel Voyage decades ago, remember a powerfully excruciating extended passage about a man struggling to quit alcohol, an experience I've never had but believe Hayden was familiar with.
Like Greil, even at 75 years of age, I only recall having experienced one very small act of antisemitism. As a Jew it's truly a luxury, as I've been at liberty to live life without fear or harassment. The incident occurred in 1966 when I was away at a high school summer Spanish immersion program in the northern Mexican state of Coahuila. In the students in attendance I experienced a fascinating mix of people from all over the U.S., north, south, east and west. The most Beatle-y looking guy was from Texarkana, Arkansas (who, playing against physical type, all too often would refer to "the nigras" in and about his home state), and the prettiest girl was blonde, friendly and approachable, a debutante in waiting from the Chicago suburbs. As for myself, I used styling gel and blow dried my hair, a product of Jay Sebring's Sunset Strip influence in Los Angeles. One afternoon the lovely girl from near Chicago and I were taking a short bus ride when, looking out the window, she happened to remark, "Yesterday, the bus took me through the crumbiest looking part of town, and you wouldn't believe what I saw: a Jewish synagogue. It was disgusting." "I'm Jewish," I replied, most matter of factly. The next day she avoided my presence, and I saw her hanging out with the guy with the Beatles haircut.
I'm oblivious but before Charlotte I really thought anti-semitism was over, past, or at the very least somewhere else, Israel, not the US. I am on your side but I think you're being too hard on the campus protesters.
"I realize they loved disco and made their own version. But to me it was more like a philosophy lecture as tableau vivant."
My fantasy is being drunk at a house party trying to get Greil, also drunk, to dance. Everyone, the place is packed, is dancing, going crazy, before Marcus finally forgets himself and dances to the music. The place is jumping, so to speak. It's like the 49ers won the Super Bowl.
"The Tom Russell song is everything I hate about singer-songwriters. Sententious and sentimental and phony and self-flattering"
I've sometimes wondered where I got this take from.
I'd hazard a guess that Marcus never liked much any of the Jackson's music? The body-hating and pedophilia were hard to take but I already liked the music a lot before that stuff came out, which made it extra weird. Like learning as a kid Ty Cobb was a violent racist asshole.
Won't you please explain how Hamas was able to trespass the most secured frontier in the world without being noticed and in doing so providing Israel with a lame excuse for genocide. Talking about suppositions and perceptions. And yes, I am Jewish.
They were noticed because the Gaza border was being watched, but it wasn't secured--there were insufficient troops and firepower to stop the attack and apparently no battle plans to respond to a large-scale Hamas offensive. The initial IDF response on October 7 was ad hoc and uncoordinated; it was also, in places, heartbreakingly heroic. It was the greatest failure in the history of the IDF, worse than the opening days of the Yom Kippur War.
I would call what has followed not genocide but pitiless war. Hamas chose to reset the calendar to 1941, the year of Babi Yar. It should surprise no one that Israel has reset the calendar to 1944, waging war with the ruthlessness the Western Allies showed when fighting Germany and Japan.
Greil. You’ve a few more “things” to say? Appears herein your audience knows you well enough to throw darts at you. . University Students, Hamas, Israel and Anti Semitism . You left no one out of “blame” albeit I see Netanyahu was not mentioned. I appreciate your essay and agree with most. Anti Semites masks are falling down, falling down. Btw I’ve not heard of you before this read.
Netanyahu was not mentioned by name, but "the most lawless, immoral, corrupt, and incompetent government" in Israeli history was.
Netanyahu has been an absolute liability
Always found your writing to be pretentious, wildly overcooked gibberish. And now you've come out as a Zionist. Disgusting.
If you've always had such a dislike for Greil Marcus's writing, what are you doing here in the first place?
No matter what you actually believe about a subject or person, sooner or later any serious writer has to know when they’re being trolled.